I get what you're saying about a "spiritual war." There's a conflict involving every stage of life, is that a way to summarize what you meant?
I appreciate it. I can be very stubborn, but don't let me shut you out or be out of hand.
That makes very little sense to me, considering the history of the world, and how cynical people talk about it. I usually hear the phrase "This is 2015" from people who would say "racism and hatred will always exist" or "war is always going to exist" or something along the lines of nothing new being under the sun. That's why I said what I said about humans not really evolving, or not having any evolved thoughts, we just change the way we look at things often.
And I understand what you mean about most neighborhoods having a mix of races or identities. I live in a mostly black neighborhood, but there are a lot of Hispanics and Philippine people here. Still, with events like this, why does the media always project an image of something contradictory to what we see in our everyday lives...I hate that about TV and news; if we really have a large amount of peaceful residences of multiple races, then why do we blow these racially-generated incidents out of proportion?
To be honest, I thought then that people would've taken a flag more seriously. Thinking back to it, the Confederate Flag had more weight to it around the time of its conception than it does now. A lot more violence was occurring on greater scales back then than they were now. That's why I really don't care about it, because aside from what happens currently, it was worse then, and we now have better methods to combat this terrorism. While some things will slip through the cracks; I say that we have come a long way, but by taking this political route it exacerbates things.
I feel like then more people were afraid of it, because of that type of militant actions taken by those hate groups. Now people, especially black people, are more bold and are more entranced with fighting other issues than having to be afraid that there's some type of force under that flag. And much of that is thanks to the Civil Rights Act and other political steps taken to stop that type of ideal from being tolerated. I'll agree with that because there was a lot more violence back then (I've kinda said that a lot, I need to move on) and the perception of the flag has changed because of how much the country has changed.
But the fact that we have this hair-trigger perception of how the Confederate flag = Racial inequality and all of this bad stuff. I really don't like that, because it defeats the purpose of having rational thoughts on what is right and wrong. I believe that there are some Confederates who really aren't bad people and may even have black friends because the Confederate flag could encompass other social or political ideas that aren't enforced with something violent or famous because of adversity to a social change.
Haha, I like that bad memories analogy. Same for the swastika...Can't we just give the swastika its righteous meaning, it makes life easier? Seriously, I've seen a bunch of videos where merchandise or other objects get flak because they bear a swastika...The Nazi party isn't even that powerful anymore, why get bent outta shape over it?
While I do agree that it has been an issue for a long time--thinking of how much of an issue it was previously makes me question how this is effective. A lot of tension was able to be resolved without having to resort to taking down symbols. I like symbols--for everything; I like logos, symbols, little keychains and bumper tags and stuff, but it seems that by only approaching a symbolic resolution just seems to BS the whole argument.
To me it downplays the lives of those who were lost in that event; are the lives of those 9 people so revered that in honor of them we take down a flag...And I want to know:
a- If there's any legal landmark that protects flags under some sort of Freedom of Speech (oh that's a classic) or some sort of States Rights; because all of this seems too sudden to be true.
b- What sort of trial is the boy facing for murdering those people?
I hate to get all Matrix-Conspiracy-Theory, but while I understand that people would like to see a statue or symbol taken down--it doesn't fix the problem, it merely pacifies people for a moment until the next big news rage comes about. It all seems like a giant distraction.
I don't get why people are so wrapped up in symbols and flags and stuff when historically, was that really the mindset that started getting things accomplished?
What do you think?
I'm so over the music thing, but I guess its not over me. (Wow, that came out nicely)
Like most things, there's a 2-way split on how I feel about it. On one hand it can be said with confidence that she's done a lot to help black people; but the fact that she had to go through much to fit an identity, and one that carries a lot of weight, I find it disrespectful. She can call herself anything, but I guarantee that she will not have to carry the same burdens that black people do, and for anyone to accept that with open arms, I find it shameful.
Plus, the media had to take it to a whole different level when she started that "Transracial" thing, I was so disgusted that I didn't know whether to laugh or cry at how crazy that was.
For Raven Symone I say she both represented herself as black, but that was heavily perpetuated by other people on social media. And it has been said that "Media is the 4th arm of the government" because it forces out a lot of ideals that people will then accept into a political spectrum, but let me get back to Raven Symone.
She claimed that she did not see race or color when she was interviewed on some talk show about someone calling her "biracial" or "mixed-race." I think it also had to do with something with her coming out as a lesbian, or maybe its because I heard similar things around the same time. This all happened within the period of 3 or 4 months.
BUT I feel that she represented herself as black when she was on another talk show (I think she's on "The View" now, that might have been it) where the topic of the face of the 20-dollar-bill being changed from Andrew Jackson to a female face. Among the candidates to be the first female face on US currency was Harriet Tubman, and Raven had quite a mouthful about that...Note that this is AFTER she said that she didn't see race/color. I thought to myself, "If you say something that ejects you from a racial connotation or subject, you have no right to speak about it with any representative voice."
That's like me stepping down from being a manager of a company, but then later I talk about what policies that company should follow; I saw it as hypocritical.
I understand that not all black people were parading around about a flag being taken down, but the media perception is that it is a large amount. Going back to what I said about "Media being the 4th branch of government" it puts a large perception out there that black people can be pacified by just taking down a flag. I'm more worried about whether or not this murderer will face appropriate time; while I am on the fence about the death penalty, I'm still curious about how they're going to actually serve justice and make sure this idiot is fairly sentenced and that they don't give him crazy charges that he wouldn't be guilty of in order to find him "Not guilty" like they did in the Zimmerman trial and the Darren Wilson trial.
Sorry about making that a huge block, but what you said about bandwagon-people is too common amongst blacks. The same way it is about music; blacks will perpetuate the idea that if as a black person you must believe x, y, or z to consider yourself black...And if you don't, you're considered a "coon" or a "self-hater" or other BS. And by the media portraying only the idea that black people are excited about a simple flag being taken down, it further degenerates the ability for people to accept opinions other than their own.
When I say fight or die, I mean do something knowing that you could be killed in the process. Countless events have shown that black women do heinous things and will not face physical harm or even threats for doing the most malicious things. What was her bail or her arrest charge? I can almost promise you that she will have a bail less than $10,000 and if convicted she won't face more than 5 years at max.
The reason why I will argue that this situation has more power than others is because we have had more to say about it than others. Note how the focus is not around this kid's trial, but around the Confederate Flag. I see it as a reason for Confederates to start making motions; there was a huge Confederate Flag rally where families of people would drive with their C. Flags flying on their cars. This incident is different from others because people haven't mobilized like that. Whenever the case involved a trial, you'd get a large amount of people contributing money to the person on trial so that they could protect him or "commend his bravery" (those people disgust me the most) as they put it. But now, once it becomes about ideals and symbols people will start doing more with their bodies than with their money.
I had lost this part of my post because it got cut up, but I compared this to this nation's ongoing struggle with Islamic extremism. Not only would we normally find the pride in Islamic culture (especially in a flag) as an act of terrorism or something outlandish, but many people will disrespect the Islamic flag and mock their culture. I find that disgusting as well; especially when we have people who will say things like "superstition" and "unevolved thoughts" to describe someone's religious convictions.
Whoops, I went on another tangent; the point of it all is that this case has more activism behind it which has more potential to cause more racial tension than previous incidents. Just think, what if those Confederate rally members had showed up to the capitol; things probably would have gone awry.
Oh, that's definitely why I try not to talk about that, because if I did people would think I'm evil. I can agree on the spiritual war, but not just in religious terms but in ideological terms. Think of it like the matrix; even though we claim to have independent thoughts and free will, we will often let one ideal have more pull than another in certain regards. It's a political war, a thought war, and I call it "a war of evolution" because I recently had this MOTS:
-"Human thoughts do not evolve; we just gravitate to whatever makes us feel better as people to separate us from what we declare to be unevolved."
I understand you on that point (the one about it being a good gesture and the one about not controlling where you live), that's fair. But what's sad is that the media won't focus on that. It's the nature of the beast to always seek out something salacious or provocative, but if we really believed in all of this peace and coexistence, we would talk more about how Confederates can be in the same area as black (and other races of) people and not engage in this foolishness.
Could you please enlighten me on what that means? I hear people say "This is 2015" a lot, as if that's supposed to have an entire history to it, to me its a confusing statement.
But I too, found it weird that he was at that church for an hour before he started attacking people. Normally I wouldn't believe that people go on shooting rampages because they are mentally unstable, but I found that fact pattern to be weird for him. If what he said was true, it doesn't make much sense for him to sit there for an hour before doing what he did.
And its shameful how we aren't talking about the 9 churches that were burned to the ground not too long after this. Even so, I want to tell black folks to stop taking hits on the chin, how come we have gone so long with racial violence like a kid who gets bullied on the playground? I really get sad when I see stuff like that.
The reason I say that about shutting the entire ideal down, is that while this is one incident of many, nothing about it is consistent. Why all of a sudden? Why this incident? Why now in 2015? Why didn't we do this once the Civil War ended, when things were more serious, when entire black families would be lynched and burned and drug on the back trucks until their heads flew off? I just find it to be selective outrage that we'd put this off all throughout our history and wait until long down the line when some clown does something. It literally feels like the village fool spilled tapioca all over the streets and all of a sudden we become activists when we have black men languishing in jail when they didn't do anything wrong...When a man was in jail for 30 years, contracted HIV, and we will argue about how much money we give him back for practically taking away his life.
There's no thin line anymore, its just a huge sociopolitical tumbleweed thing going on.
Kazamas-Keyblade
Otaku Legend | Posted 07/16/15 | Reply
@:
Ok, that's cool.
I get what you're saying about a "spiritual war." There's a conflict involving every stage of life, is that a way to summarize what you meant?
I appreciate it. I can be very stubborn, but don't let me shut you out or be out of hand.
That makes very little sense to me, considering the history of the world, and how cynical people talk about it. I usually hear the phrase "This is 2015" from people who would say "racism and hatred will always exist" or "war is always going to exist" or something along the lines of nothing new being under the sun. That's why I said what I said about humans not really evolving, or not having any evolved thoughts, we just change the way we look at things often.
And I understand what you mean about most neighborhoods having a mix of races or identities. I live in a mostly black neighborhood, but there are a lot of Hispanics and Philippine people here. Still, with events like this, why does the media always project an image of something contradictory to what we see in our everyday lives...I hate that about TV and news; if we really have a large amount of peaceful residences of multiple races, then why do we blow these racially-generated incidents out of proportion?
To be honest, I thought then that people would've taken a flag more seriously. Thinking back to it, the Confederate Flag had more weight to it around the time of its conception than it does now. A lot more violence was occurring on greater scales back then than they were now. That's why I really don't care about it, because aside from what happens currently, it was worse then, and we now have better methods to combat this terrorism. While some things will slip through the cracks; I say that we have come a long way, but by taking this political route it exacerbates things.
I feel like then more people were afraid of it, because of that type of militant actions taken by those hate groups. Now people, especially black people, are more bold and are more entranced with fighting other issues than having to be afraid that there's some type of force under that flag. And much of that is thanks to the Civil Rights Act and other political steps taken to stop that type of ideal from being tolerated. I'll agree with that because there was a lot more violence back then (I've kinda said that a lot, I need to move on) and the perception of the flag has changed because of how much the country has changed.
But the fact that we have this hair-trigger perception of how the Confederate flag = Racial inequality and all of this bad stuff. I really don't like that, because it defeats the purpose of having rational thoughts on what is right and wrong. I believe that there are some Confederates who really aren't bad people and may even have black friends because the Confederate flag could encompass other social or political ideas that aren't enforced with something violent or famous because of adversity to a social change.
Haha, I like that bad memories analogy. Same for the swastika...Can't we just give the swastika its righteous meaning, it makes life easier? Seriously, I've seen a bunch of videos where merchandise or other objects get flak because they bear a swastika...The Nazi party isn't even that powerful anymore, why get bent outta shape over it?
While I do agree that it has been an issue for a long time--thinking of how much of an issue it was previously makes me question how this is effective. A lot of tension was able to be resolved without having to resort to taking down symbols. I like symbols--for everything; I like logos, symbols, little keychains and bumper tags and stuff, but it seems that by only approaching a symbolic resolution just seems to BS the whole argument.
To me it downplays the lives of those who were lost in that event; are the lives of those 9 people so revered that in honor of them we take down a flag...And I want to know:
a- If there's any legal landmark that protects flags under some sort of Freedom of Speech (oh that's a classic) or some sort of States Rights; because all of this seems too sudden to be true.
b- What sort of trial is the boy facing for murdering those people?
I hate to get all Matrix-Conspiracy-Theory, but while I understand that people would like to see a statue or symbol taken down--it doesn't fix the problem, it merely pacifies people for a moment until the next big news rage comes about. It all seems like a giant distraction.
I don't get why people are so wrapped up in symbols and flags and stuff when historically, was that really the mindset that started getting things accomplished?
What do you think?
Kazamas-Keyblade
Otaku Legend | Posted 07/11/15 | Reply
@:
I'm so over the music thing, but I guess its not over me.
(Wow, that came out nicely)
Like most things, there's a 2-way split on how I feel about it. On one hand it can be said with confidence that she's done a lot to help black people; but the fact that she had to go through much to fit an identity, and one that carries a lot of weight, I find it disrespectful. She can call herself anything, but I guarantee that she will not have to carry the same burdens that black people do, and for anyone to accept that with open arms, I find it shameful.
Plus, the media had to take it to a whole different level when she started that "Transracial" thing, I was so disgusted that I didn't know whether to laugh or cry at how crazy that was.
For Raven Symone I say she both represented herself as black, but that was heavily perpetuated by other people on social media. And it has been said that "Media is the 4th arm of the government" because it forces out a lot of ideals that people will then accept into a political spectrum, but let me get back to Raven Symone.
She claimed that she did not see race or color when she was interviewed on some talk show about someone calling her "biracial" or "mixed-race." I think it also had to do with something with her coming out as a lesbian, or maybe its because I heard similar things around the same time. This all happened within the period of 3 or 4 months.
BUT I feel that she represented herself as black when she was on another talk show (I think she's on "The View" now, that might have been it) where the topic of the face of the 20-dollar-bill being changed from Andrew Jackson to a female face. Among the candidates to be the first female face on US currency was Harriet Tubman, and Raven had quite a mouthful about that...Note that this is AFTER she said that she didn't see race/color. I thought to myself, "If you say something that ejects you from a racial connotation or subject, you have no right to speak about it with any representative voice."
That's like me stepping down from being a manager of a company, but then later I talk about what policies that company should follow; I saw it as hypocritical.
I understand that not all black people were parading around about a flag being taken down, but the media perception is that it is a large amount. Going back to what I said about "Media being the 4th branch of government" it puts a large perception out there that black people can be pacified by just taking down a flag. I'm more worried about whether or not this murderer will face appropriate time; while I am on the fence about the death penalty, I'm still curious about how they're going to actually serve justice and make sure this idiot is fairly sentenced and that they don't give him crazy charges that he wouldn't be guilty of in order to find him "Not guilty" like they did in the Zimmerman trial and the Darren Wilson trial.
Sorry about making that a huge block, but what you said about bandwagon-people is too common amongst blacks. The same way it is about music; blacks will perpetuate the idea that if as a black person you must believe x, y, or z to consider yourself black...And if you don't, you're considered a "coon" or a "self-hater" or other BS. And by the media portraying only the idea that black people are excited about a simple flag being taken down, it further degenerates the ability for people to accept opinions other than their own.
When I say fight or die, I mean do something knowing that you could be killed in the process. Countless events have shown that black women do heinous things and will not face physical harm or even threats for doing the most malicious things. What was her bail or her arrest charge? I can almost promise you that she will have a bail less than $10,000 and if convicted she won't face more than 5 years at max.
The reason why I will argue that this situation has more power than others is because we have had more to say about it than others. Note how the focus is not around this kid's trial, but around the Confederate Flag. I see it as a reason for Confederates to start making motions; there was a huge Confederate Flag rally where families of people would drive with their C. Flags flying on their cars. This incident is different from others because people haven't mobilized like that. Whenever the case involved a trial, you'd get a large amount of people contributing money to the person on trial so that they could protect him or "commend his bravery" (those people disgust me the most) as they put it. But now, once it becomes about ideals and symbols people will start doing more with their bodies than with their money.
I had lost this part of my post because it got cut up, but I compared this to this nation's ongoing struggle with Islamic extremism. Not only would we normally find the pride in Islamic culture (especially in a flag) as an act of terrorism or something outlandish, but many people will disrespect the Islamic flag and mock their culture. I find that disgusting as well; especially when we have people who will say things like "superstition" and "unevolved thoughts" to describe someone's religious convictions.
Whoops, I went on another tangent; the point of it all is that this case has more activism behind it which has more potential to cause more racial tension than previous incidents. Just think, what if those Confederate rally members had showed up to the capitol; things probably would have gone awry.
Oh, that's definitely why I try not to talk about that, because if I did people would think I'm evil. I can agree on the spiritual war, but not just in religious terms but in ideological terms. Think of it like the matrix; even though we claim to have independent thoughts and free will, we will often let one ideal have more pull than another in certain regards. It's a political war, a thought war, and I call it "a war of evolution" because I recently had this MOTS:
-"Human thoughts do not evolve; we just gravitate to whatever makes us feel better as people to separate us from what we declare to be unevolved."
I understand you on that point (the one about it being a good gesture and the one about not controlling where you live), that's fair. But what's sad is that the media won't focus on that. It's the nature of the beast to always seek out something salacious or provocative, but if we really believed in all of this peace and coexistence, we would talk more about how Confederates can be in the same area as black (and other races of) people and not engage in this foolishness.
Could you please enlighten me on what that means? I hear people say "This is 2015" a lot, as if that's supposed to have an entire history to it, to me its a confusing statement.
But I too, found it weird that he was at that church for an hour before he started attacking people. Normally I wouldn't believe that people go on shooting rampages because they are mentally unstable, but I found that fact pattern to be weird for him. If what he said was true, it doesn't make much sense for him to sit there for an hour before doing what he did.
And its shameful how we aren't talking about the 9 churches that were burned to the ground not too long after this. Even so, I want to tell black folks to stop taking hits on the chin, how come we have gone so long with racial violence like a kid who gets bullied on the playground? I really get sad when I see stuff like that.
The reason I say that about shutting the entire ideal down, is that while this is one incident of many, nothing about it is consistent. Why all of a sudden? Why this incident? Why now in 2015? Why didn't we do this once the Civil War ended, when things were more serious, when entire black families would be lynched and burned and drug on the back trucks until their heads flew off? I just find it to be selective outrage that we'd put this off all throughout our history and wait until long down the line when some clown does something. It literally feels like the village fool spilled tapioca all over the streets and all of a sudden we become activists when we have black men languishing in jail when they didn't do anything wrong...When a man was in jail for 30 years, contracted HIV, and we will argue about how much money we give him back for practically taking away his life.
There's no thin line anymore, its just a huge sociopolitical tumbleweed thing going on.