Alrighty, thank you so much SunfallE~ ;A; I'll be sure to keep my mouth shut and stay out of it next time and turn to you or other available staff when something like this happens again.
Again thank you ;u;
*hugs*
Ah, okay I understand what you mean. I guess I'm one of the people that misunderstood as well ^^; Thanks so much for clearing it up, and no worries I'll be sure to do as you said should this ever happen again.
And as for the banning, people either refused to read it, didn't read it, or misunderstood it apparently because people that commented on the guestbook that said nothing bad to the art thief still got banned/temp banned.
Makes me wonder if you even grasp the concept of following the site terms which tell members to simply notify us and let us take care of it. Bottom line, no one should have commented on their world. NO ONE.
So instead of temp banning every single person who violated the site terms, I gave them a chance to walk away by issuing a reminder/warning, which was ignored.
Also, other than the thief, no one was permanently banned over this drama fest. The two that were temp banned, merely got a strict reminder of why it's so important to simply stay out of affairs like that.
It's simple, report it quietly and walk away. It's not that hard to do after all. :/
SunfallE
theOatku Staff
Last edited by SunfallE at 3:28:40 PM EDT on August 4, 2009.
That clears it up a little, and again, only reinforces my original explanation that it's best to let us deal with it. Then you don't have this circle of finger pointing and people yelling about something being unforgivable, when the reality is, no matter how much you or anyone feels hurt, it's all forgivable, on both sides.
Ah well if that shall be your last reply I guess this will be my last as well then.
I never said your artwork pointed anyone out and you seem to totally miss my point as to why I mentioned the picture. The point of me mentioning that picture you drew was to relate that to the drama with PriestessPower which was also a hectic incident that very much caused people to act wrongly as well.
And yes I had already seen the link that SunfallE sent. And as for the banning, people either refused to read it, didn't read it, or misunderstood it apparently because people that commented on the guestbook that said nothing bad to the art thief still got banned/temp banned.
I did read the comments and I agree, they weren't nice. For both sides, the thief and the artists', both received some extremely harsh words.
I am just going to say this and leave it, my artwork did not point anyone out, it was for a general public plus it was about flamers, NOT art thieves, big difference there.
Mods are here to report, Beth gave you the link. As for banning, she gave a warning and people refused to read it.
If you read the comments that other left on that person's site, they were not nice at all.
I am ending it with that.
Last edited by Iruka Sensei at 12:39:32 PM EDT on August 4, 2009.Santa better bring me something nice....or else I will sick Shinji on your fat @$$! Happy Holidays!
I meant unforgivable from the people who point fingers at artists' point of view. They told us how unforgivable our immature behavior was so if what we did was unforgivable, what the thief did should have been just as unforgivable. I'm sorry, I'm not good at saying what I mean especially in the mornings when I'm stressed >_>;
I hoped this issue died off and was happy to continue to go on this site without worrying about this coming up again but I guess I'm gonna have to deal with it a little longer. OTL
I didn't condemn this thief anymore, I did once and I stopped. Like I said I forgive what she did now and I wish to forget about it and move on.
I know, art theft itself is not a serious crime, I really don't care if someone stole my work, I could care less, but what angered us was the captions this thief added. Like Sayura said, the thief stole 15385bic's OCs of a boy in the sky, but what really set the fire was the captions: "this is a pic i drew of my friend's bf that died in a car crash. now he's her guardian angel. isn't it pretty?" She's inpersonating and lied to people. She also stole art from me that I made for a friend with her oc in it, but she claimed to have drawn her friend's oc and dedicated to her. If I were to find out that one of my friends stole art from someone just to give it to me, I'd feel very upset. It's what the thief did to people that's what angered us, not because she stole art. Stealing art itself isn't so serious, but taking advantage of people and friends like that is heart breaking.
Last edited by RSRKingdomStars at 9:35:20 AM EDT on August 4, 2009.
I find it interesting that your entire comment is preaching forgiveness and understanding for those who were stolen from and yet you turn around and say this here:
Stealing/ tracing/ forging/ copying someone's hard work without giving proper credit is unforgivable as well.
If you want forgiveness to be granted for those who made the mistake of letting their anger get the better of them, you have to grant it to another teenager who made the mistake of stealing in the first place.
Don't condemn them for doing the same thing as the artists, making a mistake. Art theft is not a crime that is unforgivable. Any one who thinks so is vastly exaggerating the seriousness of the mistake.
I understand your point because I did not in fact bash the art thief or any of the other people that participated in the incident. Yes, I agree it's not right to bash people directly through art, however bashing anyone in general does not help anything at all.
I did read your entire post and each section of my response follows with every corresponding section of it. Perhaps I should have taken a screenshot of the captions posted under each of the photos to prove to you that they really were stolen.
I already know that photobucket is a site that everyone uses to upload anything. However claiming something that is not theirs is not very excusable, in my opinion. There are multiple people on this site that saw the exact same things as me- captions underneath the pictures that the thief claimed to be theirs. I'm guessing you didn't look carefully underneath the picture but rather looked at the picture itself to see if any part of it was stolen. But the fact is that the writing UNDER the pictures and some of the titles of the stolen artworks were claimed inappropriately such as a reference picture that RSRKingdomstars drew of her Kingdom hearts character Sayoko- in which the thief titled as 'It ish my kh oc sayoko'. The caption under one of Reenigrl's stolen pictures was "my inuyasha oc(yume) and sesshy".
It wasn't the image themselves that upset the artists involved in the incident, it was what the thief said about them. I personally went through every image of the album myself and wrote down a list to keep track of to prove it as well.
No one really knew about the extent at which the thief went with her stealing until I found her photobucket site after her claim of having drawn everything in her album and notified the artists whose works were stolen. That being said, I had found out also before the thief disabled comments on her album and started taking precautions to make sure no one found her out. But others that discovered it a little after I had noticed the captions as well, and THAT's when things started getting out of hand. Had it not been for her claiming the artwork she posted, there wouldn't have been an enormous uproar. This is also another reason why I personally hold myself responsible for the incident in general.
"Yea you are kids and act on emotion but like I said, a way to grow up is you have to think about your consequences before you do things because they affect so many people."
And please don't think that just because I quoted that part of the paragraph that I didn't read the whole reply, because I did read the whole thing. Otherwise I would not give such an extensive response.
I know that a lot of the members on theOtaku aren't as old as you might be, because I personally don't know you well enough to know your exact age, but no matter what age, we(or at least, most of us) are taught from birth to have respect for others, even if we forget sometimes. And I'm sure that you probably already know this but adults also act on emotion too. You wouldn't have PMed that person if you did not have some sort of feeling towards them, would you?
And going by your justification, "I can justify what I mean since this person's behavior was foolish for someone like her", it seems to me that even you acted the way you did on a matter of opinion and emotion-that being you thought that what she did was foolish, and so you told her that she acted like a stupid idiot and a fool. I myself tend to act pretty emotional sometimes, but it only happens every so often. "...actually the people calling this girl those names looks just like a fool or an idiot as well.", so says your post, so needless to say(as it seems to me) that most people, including those artists that posted those artworks and yourself did not act in the way that was most appropriate either. Even adults have growing up to do. A lot of them are still young.
On the internet, it's very easy to be misunderstood and misinterpreted. So perhaps, as you said, it might have been best for you to have considered the feelings of the person you PMed because saying that a person looked like a stupid idiot could cause a lot of hurt and make you yourself not seem to set a very good example. Anyway, that's just my opinion- no one has to agree.
Another problem with the incident was that the thievery went out of reach of the staff and moderators here. The only way that people knew how to reach or even communicate with the thief was through here. There is nothing that the moderators here could have done about an incident that occurred mostly on photobucket.
I'm sure you aren't the only one here that reports to the moderators to let them handle it. I myself do that as well, but sometimes people take it upon themselves to deal with it by hand, not by way of the moderators. The story ends but the thoughts still linger. Ah well, it's passed now.
I wonder if you read my comment all the way through as well.
Last edited by aragorn1014 at 9:27:19 PM EDT on August 2, 2009.
I respect your opinion and I will say this, Mods are on the site for a good reason. Report artwork to them. Do NOT go out and bash a user like what was done in this incident. It was totally uncalled for and that piece of artwork was not right with the name on it. If the person's name wasn't on it, I wouldn't have put much say in it.
I clearly don't think you read my entire post because of the fact that I did say I went through her artwork and I did NOT see any claims, this could have been after the fact that she found out about the incident and changed them. Like I said I may have been blind but I did not see it!
As for calling someone a fool or an idiot I can justify what I mean since this person's behavior was foolish for someone like her. Many of the behaviors for this site were idiotic and foolish and were done without thinking. Yea you are kids and act on emotion but like I said, a way to grow up is you have to think about your consequences before you do things because they affect so many people.
Like I said, I am standing strong on my belief and don't agree how members delt with this individual. Leave it up to staff from both sites to take care of it instead of causing total drama otaku. Its a pain in the butt. I didn't join to see people pointing fingers at each other I came to join this site to be involved and to have fun. However, when I see bashing like no matter who it is, I report it to the mods and they deal with it. End of story.
Last edited by Iruka Sensei at 4:26:23 PM EDT on August 2, 2009.Santa better bring me something nice....or else I will sick Shinji on your fat @$$! Happy Holidays!
Hello~ I don't know if you've ever heard of me from around the site or not, but I came upon this post and thought I might throw in a comment for it.
Actually speaking, I personally hold myself responsible for this entire incident because neither of the artists that posted work pertaining to the thief had not even heard of it until I notified them of their works being stolen. Of course, that being said, everyone in general wanted to get their opinion out on this matter just as you have right here.
No one is perfect and yes I believe that everyone has grown up in some way or another. Learning to pick up from mistakes and learn from them is just another step, as I'm sure you already know. Naming names in artwork is very much a terrible mistake, yes and it is not really appropriate in terms of keeping respectful words on this site.
However, have you ever stopped to consider that maybe it wasn't all of that artist's fault that people-including artists, decided to flame/attack the thief? Their actions were completely dependent upon themselves and it was entirely their choice. Some of the people that were more heavily affected by the thievery chose to act themselves and took it upon themselves to speak personally to the art thief, whether in an appropriate manner or not. Not all of them necessarily flamed the art thief, however I'm sure that most probably did due to the emotional effect that the thievery had on them and their artwork.
"Having this person called a fool and an idiot doesn't help, actually the people calling this girl those names looks just like a fool or an idiot as well. I admit I PMed one of my favorite artists who is very skilled and told her and said, "You are better than that but you truly looked like a stupid idiot."
If what you said were completely true on your part, you would not have took it upon yourself to call someone a stupid idiot and fool because that goes against what you just said and makes you seem somewhat foolish yourself. Being the most popular member on the site, setting a good example is very important to you, I'm sure. However that doesn't necessarily mean you should use that position to call someone that you admire on this site an "idiot" and a "fool". It's okay to remind the people you care about that they might have acted wrongly, but accusing them of being a fool or an idiot is not really the way to go about it. In fact, that could cause even more hurt to the member you PMed than the actual thievery itself.
I do respect the moderators for their work. They keep the site under careful eye and SunfallE is one of the people that best help this site stay in shape. She certainly has good judgement as I'm sure many other people on this site do. Banning was possibly one of the better options to quell the arguing and drama.
But then I saw her banning people whose comments she had not even read-even those that said nothing bad to the art thief, but merely commented on her portfolio in response to questions. I don't necessarily agree with this course of action, but being a mere member of the site, there isn't exactly anything I can do now, is there.
I don't know if you got the comment I posted on the artist's picture but I believe you misunderstood the situation. I had posted links as examples as to exactly why so many artists were upset. Everyone KNOWS that photobucket is merely an image uploading site where anyone can upload anything they wish at any given time for their purposes. But when the uploader decides to write captions underneath the work CLAIMING that they drew the artwork and the characters in it for themselves and their friends, that's where the problem arises. I was actually one of the artists that was stolen from as well. One of the specific pictures I remember in her album was a picture of one of 15385bic's OCs of a boy in the sky, and she said "this is a pic i drew of my friend's bf that died in a car crash. now he's her guardian angel. isn't it pretty?" I even went through every single picture and page of her album and noted which artists were stolen from and what pictures as well- and if anything, RSRkingdomstars, Reenigrl, KittyKoma, and KungPowChicken were hit the hardest...they all had at least 5 or more pictures stolen by the art thief.
Yes, I'm an Otaku nerd for going through every single one of those stolen artworks. But you know what? I care about the people on this site, whether I've spoken to them or not, so I did what I did and looked thoroughly through the album. Giving credit where credit is due is always important-whether it be uploading photos on photobucket or crediting the original artist of a referenced picture...and that's one of the things I found most important here.
And I'm not sure if you've heard this quote before or not, but there is nothing bad that happens that something good doesn't come out of. In other words, it's experiences like these that teach people when or when not to speak and what the consequences are of making the wrong choices.
More importantly, I think the incident brought me closer to other artists on the site. It made me realize just how close I was to them, whether I had spoken to them or not. I had never spoken to Reenigrl but she became a friend of mine after the issue was resolved and I realized just how much the theOtaku community cares for each other. We all have an underlying respect for other artists and that's why drama comes up here sometimes, just like in the real world.
No one is asking for a pity party. They are merely doing what they believe can be best to compensate for their actions. I don't know if you agree, but I most certainly would not like to leave others hanging after doing something terribly wrong. I'd like to apologize and make sure that everyone knows that I'm sorry for what I had done. THEN people can move on-not just you yourself, but others around you can heave a sigh of relief and relax as well.
Come to think of it, the picture you posted under this post was a collab about boxing flamers with Priestesspower, yes? That incident with Priestess was also a really big issue for a time, as I'm sure you already know. Well I guess this incident reminds us just how connected people are with each other and their artwork.
"The lesson here is think before you speak."
Yes. And it doesn't matter, regardless of position, rank, artist or not, everyone should have respect for people-whether they are someone they admire or not.
Personally, this is how I see it. Think of it as grey. Not black or white. That's how I go about things.
Well that's my take on it. I know you didn't ask for it, but I thought I'd pitch in and say my take on it all. See you around~
Last edited by aragorn1014 at 2:18:26 AM EDT on August 2, 2009.
Holy crap, I'm gone for a week and I miss something big. What happened? Someone stole someone's artwork and then the whole place divided into two camps of angry people or something? O.o I'm confused, really.
Okay...whoa whoa whoa let me take a step back for a while. What the hell happened!? Lol I'm totally lost. Someone stole artwork or something? what!? HUH!?
Good point made there. This whole thing sounds ridiculous to me. Why can't people just be polite! Let the mods deal with it, that's their job and they do it much better than an angry mob...
"I don't care if you are a top artist or a regular artist, your actions will affect many people around you "
This is the best thing mentioned in this post. No matter who you are, you have to realize that what you do/say can affect others whether you want them to or not. I have learned that lesson the hard way. It's easy to overreact and do something that you may regret later on.
@harvestmoonluvr
True, but there is a way to appropriately act for someone who steals your artwork. You report them to the staff and have them deal with it. Making a fan art about someone stealing your work and having others flame a member of the site is never good, no matter how objectively you look at it. I'm not taking sides and saying "Yay plagarism!!", because it is a horrible thing to do. However, reacting in that way really hurts your credibility and-as in this case-gets you banned from the site. I know it hurts to see your work being plagarized, but doing things like this is childish and uncalled for.
Sometimes it pays to cool off and think rationally before acting on a situation. That is the mark of someone who has a good head on their shoulders ;)
I see I'm notorious for being pricesely the one being pmed by both sides XD I think I'm the only one who actually got personally PMed by this thief before this happened. I rly appreciated her telling that she admired my art and she told me she'd like to be friends and all that sweet stuff, but in the end, I was back stabbed by this person AND the art I made for my friends were stolen and being claimed by this stranger. (and yes she DID claim most of the art to be hers)
I'm not mad at this thief anymore, I actually got over it right the next day and felt guilty immediately afterwards, I even said so in my post. I already sent a pm to her yesterday morning to tell her sorry and wish her the best and do things right next time and such.
Please know that I'm not angry at you for PM me about this at all, but what REALLY bugged me is that (even though I know I am stupid) you think I'm stupid enough to accuse that an 'innocent prsn' who didn't steal but simply post as a 'fan' of stealing.
Trust me, I am not that blunt enough to accuse someone of robbery whithout proof. If you truly are my friend I wish that you'd trust me a little better than that. I know what I saw. About 90% of my art had her claiming it's hers. fortunately and unfortunately her photobucket got deleted at last so I can't show you anymore, but she did in fact claim most of the art as being hers. (not all of them tho, and unfortunately these were exactly the ones that you looked at, which caused this misunderstanding)
Please note I'm not angry at you for calling me stupid, I am, I don't deny it, I never considered myself as a very bright individual, but to think I'm stupid for THIS reason which isn't even true is what hurt me most. I could hardly sleep last night because of the heart and headache it was causing. I know this sounds babyish for someone who's going to be a freshman soon but I nearly cried with pain that someone thought I was THIS low enough to accuse someone of a crime without thinking. I KNOW what I said was cruel and it was very foolish of me. I even went back and edited that comment I made about the thief. Just because I blow up on emoment, doesn't mean I'll stay angry forever. It's a phase. I'm sure you've went thru hardships and anger before, but it will eventually subside. That's what "mood" is. It changes daily or even hourly. You can't expect someone to stay in one mood forever. Keep in mind teenagers aren't as emotionally stable as adults are due to our changing growth hormones. We change our moods quickly and are quick to realize our mistakes with the help of adults who teach us to control ourselves. So please don't stay mad at us forever. I think most (is not all) of the upset artists have already apologized and feel sorry.
I already felt so guilty posting such a horrible comment afterward when my mood started stabalizing and that pm nearly shattered my heart.
I know what I did was very wrong, no doubt about it, but attacking my actions for something I partly didn't do (the part of accusing bluntly without proper evidence) isn't really helping me feel any better. Attacking someone for attacking someone isn't solving anything.
Like any human being I have feelings too and simply wanted to let out my frustrations (though what I said went way too far and was unnacceptable. I've said this many times but I regret it deeply and I've apologized many times) It was just a spur of the moment. I can't always keep my calm. Teenagers are still partly kids, we make mistakes, so don't expect us to be adults right away. That's what growing up is for. To learn thru experience and learn to become a mature adult. If all teenagers acted like adults, then the term "teenager" is hardly necesary.
I know I'm an idiot. Name one human who has never acted like one, or made even the simplest mistake. Even adults make mistakes you know, teenagers are no exception. I never claimed or asked to be a role model or tell others to follow my every actions. (that'd be scary) the only role model ppl SHOULD follow is Jesus. Not me. I'm just a mere human who isn't even strong enough to keep her mouth shut and keep her anger and emotions to herself. I'm weak and inperfect. I'll never be perfect, nobody will.
I've had many other ppl treating me like absolute crap lately and I never blew off, but sadly I DID that one instant, and it was enough to cause this.
You have no idea how much I want to take these words back, like I said, I can't even sleep anymore. At least I didn't vomit my anger all over the site and cause an even greater comotion than it already was.
Again, I want to desperately point out that YES the thief DID in fact claim many ocs and art to be hers. I'm not angry at her because she stole my art, I could care less actually, but what disturbs me is that she stole my dear friends' wonderful characters and art without guilt. She stole like 9 art from me but that didn't bug me as much as her nerve actually forge my art that I made for my friends. When I make something for a friend, I put all my heart and soul into it while thinking of that person (Every artist does the same) It's serious business when you mess with an artist's art, but it's a deadly death factory business when you mess with their friends.
Art is made from the heart and the artist takes their time and effort to dedicate themselves to the art and the person they give it to. By stealing that, an artist's heart breaks, and angry yells and death threats are bound to happen. We can't always control our anger.
As much as giving death threats and hate mail is unnacceptable (which we all apologized for didn't we?), Stealing/ tracing/ forging/ copying someone's hard work without giving proper credit is unforgivable as well.
Everyone makes mistakes, and I'm no exception. Everyone one of us feel bad about what we've done. I think both sides of this war have been a bit too harsh on eachother. The battle is over and let's please move on.
I'll post this comment for the whole site to see if I need to, to show how sorry I am.
If you haven't noticed, everybody has already apologized about this, so there's no need to repeat our past behavior to make us feel bad all over again.
Again I apologize for letting my anger slip like that. I assure you I have learned from it greatly and I promise to everyone it won't happen ever again.
Last edited by RSRKingdomStars at 8:00:59 PM EDT on July 30, 2009.
I feel like I've been in a bubble. I didn't even know this happened. D:
However, if the person had been mature enough to just say it was her artwork, I have a feeling the other would have been able to be equally mature and take it down. It seems like an accident to me. So no need to make a big deal about it, right?
Iruka!!!! I feel the exact same way you did
when I heard about it, I may have gotten a bit mad and almost did something myself I am sure
but, I thought things through, and decided that it wasnt worth my time to flame this one person
and I have had a pretty much clean record here on the Otaku
I feel the exact same way :D
I made a post kinda similar to this yesterday lol xD
People have no right to wish others dead or flame them with curses like some did.
I'm kinda on neutral ground with this whole thing...I don't like plagiarists, but people who say things like that are just as bad.
Well, in the least, people HAVE learned from all of this.
I think the person you're talking about has already posted another piece saying she was sorry
And I've seen posts everywhere full of apologies, so, that's good :)
RSRKingdomStars
Title: Senior Otaku++ | Posted 08/05/09 | Reply
@SunfallE:
Alrighty, thank you so much SunfallE~ ;A; I'll be sure to keep my mouth shut and stay out of it next time and turn to you or other available staff when something like this happens again.
Again thank you ;u;
*hugs*
aragorn1014
Title: Otaku Legend | Posted 08/04/09 | Reply
@SunfallE:
Ah, okay I understand what you mean. I guess I'm one of the people that misunderstood as well ^^; Thanks so much for clearing it up, and no worries I'll be sure to do as you said should this ever happen again.
SunfallE
Title: ZE MEANIE++ | Posted 08/04/09 | Reply
@aragorn1014:
You know, your comment here:
And as for the banning, people either refused to read it, didn't read it, or misunderstood it apparently because people that commented on the guestbook that said nothing bad to the art thief still got banned/temp banned.
Makes me wonder if you even grasp the concept of following the site terms which tell members to simply notify us and let us take care of it. Bottom line, no one should have commented on their world. NO ONE.
So instead of temp banning every single person who violated the site terms, I gave them a chance to walk away by issuing a reminder/warning, which was ignored.
Also, other than the thief, no one was permanently banned over this drama fest. The two that were temp banned, merely got a strict reminder of why it's so important to simply stay out of affairs like that.
It's simple, report it quietly and walk away. It's not that hard to do after all. :/
SunfallE
theOatku Staff
Last edited by SunfallE at 3:28:40 PM EDT on August 4, 2009.
SunfallE
Title: ZE MEANIE++ | Posted 08/04/09 | Reply
@RSRKingdomStars:
That clears it up a little, and again, only reinforces my original explanation that it's best to let us deal with it. Then you don't have this circle of finger pointing and people yelling about something being unforgivable, when the reality is, no matter how much you or anyone feels hurt, it's all forgivable, on both sides.
SunfallE
theOtaku Staff
aragorn1014
Title: Otaku Legend | Posted 08/04/09 | Reply
@Iruka Sensei:
Ah well if that shall be your last reply I guess this will be my last as well then.
I never said your artwork pointed anyone out and you seem to totally miss my point as to why I mentioned the picture. The point of me mentioning that picture you drew was to relate that to the drama with PriestessPower which was also a hectic incident that very much caused people to act wrongly as well.
And yes I had already seen the link that SunfallE sent. And as for the banning, people either refused to read it, didn't read it, or misunderstood it apparently because people that commented on the guestbook that said nothing bad to the art thief still got banned/temp banned.
I did read the comments and I agree, they weren't nice. For both sides, the thief and the artists', both received some extremely harsh words.
Iruka Sensei
Title: Otaku Legend | Posted 08/04/09 | Reply
@aragorn1014:
I am just going to say this and leave it, my artwork did not point anyone out, it was for a general public plus it was about flamers, NOT art thieves, big difference there.
Mods are here to report, Beth gave you the link. As for banning, she gave a warning and people refused to read it.
If you read the comments that other left on that person's site, they were not nice at all.
I am ending it with that.
Last edited by Iruka Sensei at 12:39:32 PM EDT on August 4, 2009. Santa better bring me something nice....or else I will sick Shinji on your fat @$$! Happy Holidays!
RSRKingdomStars
Title: Senior Otaku++ | Posted 08/04/09 | Reply
@SunfallE:
I meant unforgivable from the people who point fingers at artists' point of view. They told us how unforgivable our immature behavior was so if what we did was unforgivable, what the thief did should have been just as unforgivable. I'm sorry, I'm not good at saying what I mean especially in the mornings when I'm stressed >_>;
I hoped this issue died off and was happy to continue to go on this site without worrying about this coming up again but I guess I'm gonna have to deal with it a little longer. OTL
I didn't condemn this thief anymore, I did once and I stopped. Like I said I forgive what she did now and I wish to forget about it and move on.
I know, art theft itself is not a serious crime, I really don't care if someone stole my work, I could care less, but what angered us was the captions this thief added. Like Sayura said, the thief stole 15385bic's OCs of a boy in the sky, but what really set the fire was the captions: "this is a pic i drew of my friend's bf that died in a car crash. now he's her guardian angel. isn't it pretty?" She's inpersonating and lied to people. She also stole art from me that I made for a friend with her oc in it, but she claimed to have drawn her friend's oc and dedicated to her. If I were to find out that one of my friends stole art from someone just to give it to me, I'd feel very upset. It's what the thief did to people that's what angered us, not because she stole art. Stealing art itself isn't so serious, but taking advantage of people and friends like that is heart breaking.
Last edited by RSRKingdomStars at 9:35:20 AM EDT on August 4, 2009.
SunfallE
Title: ZE MEANIE++ | Posted 08/04/09 | Reply
@aragorn1014:
Dealing With Plagiarism
SunfallE
theOtaku Staff
SunfallE
Title: ZE MEANIE++ | Posted 08/04/09 | Reply
@RSRKingdomStars:
I find it interesting that your entire comment is preaching forgiveness and understanding for those who were stolen from and yet you turn around and say this here:
Stealing/ tracing/ forging/ copying someone's hard work without giving proper credit is unforgivable as well.
If you want forgiveness to be granted for those who made the mistake of letting their anger get the better of them, you have to grant it to another teenager who made the mistake of stealing in the first place.
Don't condemn them for doing the same thing as the artists, making a mistake. Art theft is not a crime that is unforgivable. Any one who thinks so is vastly exaggerating the seriousness of the mistake.
SunfallE
theOtaku Staff
aragorn1014
Title: Otaku Legend | Posted 08/02/09 | Reply
@Iruka Sensei:
I understand your point because I did not in fact bash the art thief or any of the other people that participated in the incident. Yes, I agree it's not right to bash people directly through art, however bashing anyone in general does not help anything at all.
I did read your entire post and each section of my response follows with every corresponding section of it. Perhaps I should have taken a screenshot of the captions posted under each of the photos to prove to you that they really were stolen.
I already know that photobucket is a site that everyone uses to upload anything. However claiming something that is not theirs is not very excusable, in my opinion. There are multiple people on this site that saw the exact same things as me- captions underneath the pictures that the thief claimed to be theirs. I'm guessing you didn't look carefully underneath the picture but rather looked at the picture itself to see if any part of it was stolen. But the fact is that the writing UNDER the pictures and some of the titles of the stolen artworks were claimed inappropriately such as a reference picture that RSRKingdomstars drew of her Kingdom hearts character Sayoko- in which the thief titled as 'It ish my kh oc sayoko'. The caption under one of Reenigrl's stolen pictures was "my inuyasha oc(yume) and sesshy".
It wasn't the image themselves that upset the artists involved in the incident, it was what the thief said about them. I personally went through every image of the album myself and wrote down a list to keep track of to prove it as well.
No one really knew about the extent at which the thief went with her stealing until I found her photobucket site after her claim of having drawn everything in her album and notified the artists whose works were stolen. That being said, I had found out also before the thief disabled comments on her album and started taking precautions to make sure no one found her out. But others that discovered it a little after I had noticed the captions as well, and THAT's when things started getting out of hand. Had it not been for her claiming the artwork she posted, there wouldn't have been an enormous uproar. This is also another reason why I personally hold myself responsible for the incident in general.
"Yea you are kids and act on emotion but like I said, a way to grow up is you have to think about your consequences before you do things because they affect so many people."
And please don't think that just because I quoted that part of the paragraph that I didn't read the whole reply, because I did read the whole thing. Otherwise I would not give such an extensive response.
I know that a lot of the members on theOtaku aren't as old as you might be, because I personally don't know you well enough to know your exact age, but no matter what age, we(or at least, most of us) are taught from birth to have respect for others, even if we forget sometimes. And I'm sure that you probably already know this but adults also act on emotion too. You wouldn't have PMed that person if you did not have some sort of feeling towards them, would you?
And going by your justification, "I can justify what I mean since this person's behavior was foolish for someone like her", it seems to me that even you acted the way you did on a matter of opinion and emotion-that being you thought that what she did was foolish, and so you told her that she acted like a stupid idiot and a fool. I myself tend to act pretty emotional sometimes, but it only happens every so often. "...actually the people calling this girl those names looks just like a fool or an idiot as well.", so says your post, so needless to say(as it seems to me) that most people, including those artists that posted those artworks and yourself did not act in the way that was most appropriate either. Even adults have growing up to do. A lot of them are still young.
On the internet, it's very easy to be misunderstood and misinterpreted. So perhaps, as you said, it might have been best for you to have considered the feelings of the person you PMed because saying that a person looked like a stupid idiot could cause a lot of hurt and make you yourself not seem to set a very good example. Anyway, that's just my opinion- no one has to agree.
Another problem with the incident was that the thievery went out of reach of the staff and moderators here. The only way that people knew how to reach or even communicate with the thief was through here. There is nothing that the moderators here could have done about an incident that occurred mostly on photobucket.
I'm sure you aren't the only one here that reports to the moderators to let them handle it. I myself do that as well, but sometimes people take it upon themselves to deal with it by hand, not by way of the moderators. The story ends but the thoughts still linger. Ah well, it's passed now.
I wonder if you read my comment all the way through as well.
Last edited by aragorn1014 at 9:27:19 PM EDT on August 2, 2009.
Iruka Sensei
Title: Otaku Legend | Posted 08/02/09 | Reply
@aragorn1014:
I respect your opinion and I will say this, Mods are on the site for a good reason. Report artwork to them. Do NOT go out and bash a user like what was done in this incident. It was totally uncalled for and that piece of artwork was not right with the name on it. If the person's name wasn't on it, I wouldn't have put much say in it.
I clearly don't think you read my entire post because of the fact that I did say I went through her artwork and I did NOT see any claims, this could have been after the fact that she found out about the incident and changed them. Like I said I may have been blind but I did not see it!
As for calling someone a fool or an idiot I can justify what I mean since this person's behavior was foolish for someone like her. Many of the behaviors for this site were idiotic and foolish and were done without thinking. Yea you are kids and act on emotion but like I said, a way to grow up is you have to think about your consequences before you do things because they affect so many people.
Like I said, I am standing strong on my belief and don't agree how members delt with this individual. Leave it up to staff from both sites to take care of it instead of causing total drama otaku. Its a pain in the butt. I didn't join to see people pointing fingers at each other I came to join this site to be involved and to have fun. However, when I see bashing like no matter who it is, I report it to the mods and they deal with it. End of story.
Last edited by Iruka Sensei at 4:26:23 PM EDT on August 2, 2009. Santa better bring me something nice....or else I will sick Shinji on your fat @$$! Happy Holidays!
aragorn1014
Title: Otaku Legend | Posted 08/02/09 | Reply
Hello~ I don't know if you've ever heard of me from around the site or not, but I came upon this post and thought I might throw in a comment for it.
Actually speaking, I personally hold myself responsible for this entire incident because neither of the artists that posted work pertaining to the thief had not even heard of it until I notified them of their works being stolen. Of course, that being said, everyone in general wanted to get their opinion out on this matter just as you have right here.
No one is perfect and yes I believe that everyone has grown up in some way or another. Learning to pick up from mistakes and learn from them is just another step, as I'm sure you already know. Naming names in artwork is very much a terrible mistake, yes and it is not really appropriate in terms of keeping respectful words on this site.
However, have you ever stopped to consider that maybe it wasn't all of that artist's fault that people-including artists, decided to flame/attack the thief? Their actions were completely dependent upon themselves and it was entirely their choice. Some of the people that were more heavily affected by the thievery chose to act themselves and took it upon themselves to speak personally to the art thief, whether in an appropriate manner or not. Not all of them necessarily flamed the art thief, however I'm sure that most probably did due to the emotional effect that the thievery had on them and their artwork.
"Having this person called a fool and an idiot doesn't help, actually the people calling this girl those names looks just like a fool or an idiot as well. I admit I PMed one of my favorite artists who is very skilled and told her and said, "You are better than that but you truly looked like a stupid idiot."
If what you said were completely true on your part, you would not have took it upon yourself to call someone a stupid idiot and fool because that goes against what you just said and makes you seem somewhat foolish yourself. Being the most popular member on the site, setting a good example is very important to you, I'm sure. However that doesn't necessarily mean you should use that position to call someone that you admire on this site an "idiot" and a "fool". It's okay to remind the people you care about that they might have acted wrongly, but accusing them of being a fool or an idiot is not really the way to go about it. In fact, that could cause even more hurt to the member you PMed than the actual thievery itself.
I do respect the moderators for their work. They keep the site under careful eye and SunfallE is one of the people that best help this site stay in shape. She certainly has good judgement as I'm sure many other people on this site do. Banning was possibly one of the better options to quell the arguing and drama.
But then I saw her banning people whose comments she had not even read-even those that said nothing bad to the art thief, but merely commented on her portfolio in response to questions. I don't necessarily agree with this course of action, but being a mere member of the site, there isn't exactly anything I can do now, is there.
I don't know if you got the comment I posted on the artist's picture but I believe you misunderstood the situation. I had posted links as examples as to exactly why so many artists were upset. Everyone KNOWS that photobucket is merely an image uploading site where anyone can upload anything they wish at any given time for their purposes. But when the uploader decides to write captions underneath the work CLAIMING that they drew the artwork and the characters in it for themselves and their friends, that's where the problem arises. I was actually one of the artists that was stolen from as well. One of the specific pictures I remember in her album was a picture of one of 15385bic's OCs of a boy in the sky, and she said "this is a pic i drew of my friend's bf that died in a car crash. now he's her guardian angel. isn't it pretty?" I even went through every single picture and page of her album and noted which artists were stolen from and what pictures as well- and if anything, RSRkingdomstars, Reenigrl, KittyKoma, and KungPowChicken were hit the hardest...they all had at least 5 or more pictures stolen by the art thief.
Yes, I'm an Otaku nerd for going through every single one of those stolen artworks. But you know what? I care about the people on this site, whether I've spoken to them or not, so I did what I did and looked thoroughly through the album. Giving credit where credit is due is always important-whether it be uploading photos on photobucket or crediting the original artist of a referenced picture...and that's one of the things I found most important here.
And I'm not sure if you've heard this quote before or not, but there is nothing bad that happens that something good doesn't come out of. In other words, it's experiences like these that teach people when or when not to speak and what the consequences are of making the wrong choices.
More importantly, I think the incident brought me closer to other artists on the site. It made me realize just how close I was to them, whether I had spoken to them or not. I had never spoken to Reenigrl but she became a friend of mine after the issue was resolved and I realized just how much the theOtaku community cares for each other. We all have an underlying respect for other artists and that's why drama comes up here sometimes, just like in the real world.
No one is asking for a pity party. They are merely doing what they believe can be best to compensate for their actions. I don't know if you agree, but I most certainly would not like to leave others hanging after doing something terribly wrong. I'd like to apologize and make sure that everyone knows that I'm sorry for what I had done. THEN people can move on-not just you yourself, but others around you can heave a sigh of relief and relax as well.
Come to think of it, the picture you posted under this post was a collab about boxing flamers with Priestesspower, yes? That incident with Priestess was also a really big issue for a time, as I'm sure you already know. Well I guess this incident reminds us just how connected people are with each other and their artwork.
"The lesson here is think before you speak."
Yes. And it doesn't matter, regardless of position, rank, artist or not, everyone should have respect for people-whether they are someone they admire or not.
Personally, this is how I see it. Think of it as grey. Not black or white. That's how I go about things.
Well that's my take on it. I know you didn't ask for it, but I thought I'd pitch in and say my take on it all. See you around~
Last edited by aragorn1014 at 2:18:26 AM EDT on August 2, 2009.
corn
Title: Senior Otaku+ | Posted 08/01/09 | Reply
Holy crap, I'm gone for a week and I miss something big. What happened? Someone stole someone's artwork and then the whole place divided into two camps of angry people or something? O.o I'm confused, really.
Teapot Domescam
Title: Senior Otaku++ | Posted 07/31/09 | Reply
Okay...whoa whoa whoa let me take a step back for a while. What the hell happened!? Lol I'm totally lost. Someone stole artwork or something? what!? HUH!?
XOXO
chibi-anna-chan
Title: Senior Otaku++ | Posted 07/30/09 | Reply
Good point made there. This whole thing sounds ridiculous to me. Why can't people just be polite! Let the mods deal with it, that's their job and they do it much better than an angry mob...
Pffft.
Kaydirt
Title: Senior Otaku+ | Posted 07/30/09 | Reply
@harvestmoonluvr:
"I don't care if you are a top artist or a regular artist, your actions will affect many people around you "
This is the best thing mentioned in this post. No matter who you are, you have to realize that what you do/say can affect others whether you want them to or not. I have learned that lesson the hard way. It's easy to overreact and do something that you may regret later on.
@harvestmoonluvr
True, but there is a way to appropriately act for someone who steals your artwork. You report them to the staff and have them deal with it. Making a fan art about someone stealing your work and having others flame a member of the site is never good, no matter how objectively you look at it. I'm not taking sides and saying "Yay plagarism!!", because it is a horrible thing to do. However, reacting in that way really hurts your credibility and-as in this case-gets you banned from the site. I know it hurts to see your work being plagarized, but doing things like this is childish and uncalled for.
Sometimes it pays to cool off and think rationally before acting on a situation. That is the mark of someone who has a good head on their shoulders ;)
Cheers,
Korey
RSRKingdomStars
Title: Senior Otaku++ | Posted 07/30/09 | Reply
I see I'm notorious for being pricesely the one being pmed by both sides XD I think I'm the only one who actually got personally PMed by this thief before this happened. I rly appreciated her telling that she admired my art and she told me she'd like to be friends and all that sweet stuff, but in the end, I was back stabbed by this person AND the art I made for my friends were stolen and being claimed by this stranger. (and yes she DID claim most of the art to be hers)
I'm not mad at this thief anymore, I actually got over it right the next day and felt guilty immediately afterwards, I even said so in my post. I already sent a pm to her yesterday morning to tell her sorry and wish her the best and do things right next time and such.
Please know that I'm not angry at you for PM me about this at all, but what REALLY bugged me is that (even though I know I am stupid) you think I'm stupid enough to accuse that an 'innocent prsn' who didn't steal but simply post as a 'fan' of stealing.
Trust me, I am not that blunt enough to accuse someone of robbery whithout proof. If you truly are my friend I wish that you'd trust me a little better than that. I know what I saw. About 90% of my art had her claiming it's hers. fortunately and unfortunately her photobucket got deleted at last so I can't show you anymore, but she did in fact claim most of the art as being hers. (not all of them tho, and unfortunately these were exactly the ones that you looked at, which caused this misunderstanding)
Please note I'm not angry at you for calling me stupid, I am, I don't deny it, I never considered myself as a very bright individual, but to think I'm stupid for THIS reason which isn't even true is what hurt me most. I could hardly sleep last night because of the heart and headache it was causing. I know this sounds babyish for someone who's going to be a freshman soon but I nearly cried with pain that someone thought I was THIS low enough to accuse someone of a crime without thinking. I KNOW what I said was cruel and it was very foolish of me. I even went back and edited that comment I made about the thief. Just because I blow up on emoment, doesn't mean I'll stay angry forever. It's a phase. I'm sure you've went thru hardships and anger before, but it will eventually subside. That's what "mood" is. It changes daily or even hourly. You can't expect someone to stay in one mood forever. Keep in mind teenagers aren't as emotionally stable as adults are due to our changing growth hormones. We change our moods quickly and are quick to realize our mistakes with the help of adults who teach us to control ourselves. So please don't stay mad at us forever. I think most (is not all) of the upset artists have already apologized and feel sorry.
I already felt so guilty posting such a horrible comment afterward when my mood started stabalizing and that pm nearly shattered my heart.
I know what I did was very wrong, no doubt about it, but attacking my actions for something I partly didn't do (the part of accusing bluntly without proper evidence) isn't really helping me feel any better. Attacking someone for attacking someone isn't solving anything.
Like any human being I have feelings too and simply wanted to let out my frustrations (though what I said went way too far and was unnacceptable. I've said this many times but I regret it deeply and I've apologized many times) It was just a spur of the moment. I can't always keep my calm. Teenagers are still partly kids, we make mistakes, so don't expect us to be adults right away. That's what growing up is for. To learn thru experience and learn to become a mature adult. If all teenagers acted like adults, then the term "teenager" is hardly necesary.
I know I'm an idiot. Name one human who has never acted like one, or made even the simplest mistake. Even adults make mistakes you know, teenagers are no exception. I never claimed or asked to be a role model or tell others to follow my every actions. (that'd be scary) the only role model ppl SHOULD follow is Jesus. Not me. I'm just a mere human who isn't even strong enough to keep her mouth shut and keep her anger and emotions to herself. I'm weak and inperfect. I'll never be perfect, nobody will.
I've had many other ppl treating me like absolute crap lately and I never blew off, but sadly I DID that one instant, and it was enough to cause this.
You have no idea how much I want to take these words back, like I said, I can't even sleep anymore.
At least I didn't vomit my anger all over the site and cause an even greater comotion than it already was.
Again, I want to desperately point out that YES the thief DID in fact claim many ocs and art to be hers. I'm not angry at her because she stole my art, I could care less actually, but what disturbs me is that she stole my dear friends' wonderful characters and art without guilt. She stole like 9 art from me but that didn't bug me as much as her nerve actually forge my art that I made for my friends. When I make something for a friend, I put all my heart and soul into it while thinking of that person (Every artist does the same) It's serious business when you mess with an artist's art, but it's a deadly death factory business when you mess with their friends.
Art is made from the heart and the artist takes their time and effort to dedicate themselves to the art and the person they give it to. By stealing that, an artist's heart breaks, and angry yells and death threats are bound to happen. We can't always control our anger.
As much as giving death threats and hate mail is unnacceptable (which we all apologized for didn't we?), Stealing/ tracing/ forging/ copying someone's hard work without giving proper credit is unforgivable as well.
Everyone makes mistakes, and I'm no exception. Everyone one of us feel bad about what we've done. I think both sides of this war have been a bit too harsh on eachother. The battle is over and let's please move on.
I'll post this comment for the whole site to see if I need to, to show how sorry I am.
If you haven't noticed, everybody has already apologized about this, so there's no need to repeat our past behavior to make us feel bad all over again.
Again I apologize for letting my anger slip like that. I assure you I have learned from it greatly and I promise to everyone it won't happen ever again.
Last edited by RSRKingdomStars at 8:00:59 PM EDT on July 30, 2009.
cherrichan13
Title: Otakuite++ | Posted 07/30/09 | Reply
I feel like I've been in a bubble. I didn't even know this happened. D:
However, if the person had been mature enough to just say it was her artwork, I have a feeling the other would have been able to be equally mature and take it down. It seems like an accident to me. So no need to make a big deal about it, right?
zero guardian
Title: Senior Otaku++ | Posted 07/30/09 | Reply
Iruka!!!! I feel the exact same way you did
when I heard about it, I may have gotten a bit mad and almost did something myself I am sure
but, I thought things through, and decided that it wasnt worth my time to flame this one person
and I have had a pretty much clean record here on the Otaku
I am glad you had the heart to do this *huggles*
so how ya been?
harvestmoonluvr
Title: Senior Otaku | Posted 07/30/09 | Reply
@Iruka Sensei:
Eh, Pity trip or not, at least she did something x)
Yeah :D
Iruka Sensei
Title: Otaku Legend | Posted 07/30/09 | Reply
@harvestmoonluvr:
I know she has but I don't like people who want the pity trip either but at least she learned from it but what she did was very much uncalled for.
Santa better bring me something nice....or else I will sick Shinji on your fat @$$! Happy Holidays!harvestmoonluvr
Title: Senior Otaku | Posted 07/30/09 | Reply
I feel the exact same way :D
I made a post kinda similar to this yesterday lol xD
People have no right to wish others dead or flame them with curses like some did.
I'm kinda on neutral ground with this whole thing...I don't like plagiarists, but people who say things like that are just as bad.
Well, in the least, people HAVE learned from all of this.
I think the person you're talking about has already posted another piece saying she was sorry
And I've seen posts everywhere full of apologies, so, that's good :)
*huggles*